Dharma Drops Podcast Ep. 15: Habits for Physical + Emotional Decluttering (Transcript)

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Below is an automated transcription of Episode 15 “Habits for Physical + Emotional Decluttering with Rebecca Mezzino” To listen to the full episode, use the player below or listen on all podcast apps. Like Dharma Drops Podcast, this transcript is imperfect. Because life and humans—and automated transcribers are imperfect. But it’s pretty damn close. :)

Note: To keep you on your toes, there are two Rebeccas in this episode. Me, Rebecca Warfield, the host of Dharma Drops Podcast and Rebecca Mezzino declutter coach and host of Be Uncluttered Podcast. To indicate the who’s-who, Rebecca Warfield is labeled as “Warfield.” And my guest, who is more than a last name is Rebecca. ;)

Rebecca Warfield:       00:00  You guys are killing it when it comes to supporting Dharma Drops Podcast. Up to the mid-month mark, it has been the best month so far for Dharma Drops Podcast, with the record number of downloads up to the mid-month. And you guys have been rating reviewing and subscribing and I cannot thank you enough. And they're really good news is, I decided yesterday that Dharma Drops Podcast is going to be the world's number one yoga podcast. I mean it is public. It is going to happen right, when you put it out to the universe. I'm so sure about this, that I even have all of Oprah's possible questions, she could ask me on my big interview. They're answered. They're already answered in my head. All I have to do is just get that spot on like Super Soul Sunday or whatever it is called. Sorry Oprah, I'll definitely know the name of this show by the time you asked me to be on.

Rebecca Warfield:       00:48  But in the meantime, while I figured out that whole thing with Oprah. Do me just a little favor and, grab your phones and keep rating, reviewing and subscribing to Dharma Drops Podcast. The more you rate, review and subscribe, the better this podcast will do. And together we will keep spreading all the awesome information that the guests have to share. So don't forget to rate, review and subscribe, and then, as always, enjoy the episode.

  Oh, but one more thing before you get into the episode. I'm about to start recording special exclusive podcast episodes, but some of your favorite guests from Dharma Drops, including Rive from the New School Kitchen; Danny from Spiritual Junkies; Gabby from Make Your Perfect; and your favorite yoga teacher, Logan Wagon Seller. These ladies' podcasts will be available only in my new course, Feeding the Wild Life. This is a two-week course in learning to embrace the wild life and cultivating balance within this wild ride, that we call life.

So to register for the course and to have access to these podcasts. Just go to www.rebeccawarfield.com/wildlife and if you register before August 1st you can save 10% with their promo code WILD10. So again, that is www.rebeccawarfield.com/wildlife and the promo code is WILD10. Not only will you get yoga classes and meditation, but you will also get awesome exclusive podcast with some of your favorites. Okay, now and mean it. Enjoy the episode.

Intro:          02:17        This is Dharma Drops with your host, Rebecca Warfield. This podcast is a little bit about yoga, a little bit about life and a little bit about whatever. And just as a warning, this podcast is unscripted. So that means I might regret a few things that I say, but hey, maybe I'll say some pretty awesome stuff to remember. These are musings, not truths. Buckle up, giddy up because here we go.

Warfield:    02:48        This might be the earliest that I have recorded a podcast at 7:13 in the morning.

Rebecca:     02:55        Well done. I couldn't do it.

Warfield:    02:57        Well, what time is it in Australia? So you are thirteen and a half hours ahead.

Rebecca:     03:01        Yes, that is quarter to nine.

Warfield:    03:04        It is bedtime.

Rebecca:     03:05        Yeah. Not yet for me, but it would be for you.

Warfield:    03:09       So it is 7:15 in the morning here and it is quarter to nine there, which means you've already enjoyed all of Tuesday. How is the forecast of my day looking?

Rebecca:     03:19       Tuesday is pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah, I think you are going to have a good one. Mine was okay. Yup.

Warfield:    03:25       Yeah. Well welcome to Dharma Drops podcast, friends. I am your host, Rebecca Warfield, and I am speaking, I think, in the future with Rebecca Mezzino a declutter coach and host of Be Uncluttered podcast. She's all the way in Australia and she is here today to talk about something I need desperately in my life. That is de cluttering. How's it going, Rebecca?

Rebecca: 03:25           Good. Good.

Warfield:    03:51       Yes. So all the way in Australia, thirteen and a half hours ahead. You are in the future and the forecast is looking good, right?

Rebecca:     04:02       It definitely is. It is pretty good Tuesday, so I think you are going to enjoy it.

Warfield:    04:07       You know it blows my mind. Cause, I mean, I already know this stuff, you know, but it is just so hot and humid in the middle of North Carolina right now. It is the middle of winter for you, too right.

Rebecca:     04:16       It is. I'm sitting here wrapped in an electric blanket, like a heated electric blanket thing.

Warfield:    04:22       It is so weird. It is hard think sometimes that we're all on the same earth.

Rebecca:     04:26       Yes, it is. And then I know that in six months time I'll be sitting in similar weather to you, only with less humidity. And you'll be cold.

Warfield:    04:37       Luckily it doesn't get too, too cold in North Carolina, our big thing, that we kind of dread, is hurricane season, which we're in the middle of right now, which is kind of a bum. I don't know if you follow the news, American news last year, but Hurricane Florence made landfall here in Wilmington, North Carolina. So we're all kind of dreading.

Rebecca:     04:59       Yeah. We don't want it happening again.

Warfield:    05:02       We had a hundred inches of rain last year, which is a lot.

Rebecca:     05:07       Wow. That is like two and a half meters.? I don't know.

Warfield:    05:12       I have no idea, because they never taught me these things in American education.

Rebecca:     05:17       I know. I know that an inch is two and a half centimeters and I just did a really quick math. And I'm probably just thinking, oh, that was really bad idea.

Warfield:    05:27       Well, it is better than any math I could do. Actually. I've been on the mission, over the last few weeks, to stop saying I'm bad in math because that is actually not true. And I think I've mentioned this on this podcast before, but I was told over and over and over again as a child, that I was bad in math and I just, I just believed it, you know? And so coming into college, I ended up doing very well in math. And all my graduate readiness exams, when I was trying to get into graduate school, is scored higher in math than I did in English. Even though I ended up with a graduate degree in English. So I'm not bad at math, I just don't know that equation.

Rebecca:     06:03       Yeah, yeah, exactly. It is one of those things you kind of have to have a little bit of prior knowledge on before you can do the calculation. And I think I mucked it up. I think it is 250 centimeters of rain you had, not two and a half meters.

Warfield:    06:16       Well, it was a lot of rain. I'll tell you that.

Rebecca:     06:19       By the way, it is a lot.

Warfield:    06:20       Yes. And then with all that rain, the river flooded, there was a surge from the ocean, because we live here at the beach, you know, and it was a pretty wild year. So we're all over here dying of humidity and heat in a 105 degree weather. And hoping that we don't get another hurricane this year.

Rebecca:     06:39       Fingers crossed.

Warfield:    06:40       Thank you. We appreciate that. So Rebecca, well first of all, how fun is it that there's two Rebecca's on here?

Rebecca:     06:48       Right name.

Warfield:    06:48       Yes. Best Name. It is a super name. Before we start recording. I don't even remember what I said. I think I said something was super happy and Rebecca said that that was a very American thing to say. I had no idea that American say super a lot.

Rebecca:     07:04       Oh you say it all the time, everything is super awesome and super amazing and super yummy. And we even say like sometimes we'll even say it in American accents here. Not in a mocking way, but like in a fun way where we go like, oh that is super awesome. It is just that way of ticking off Americans, is to say, oh my god, that is so super awesome.

Warfield:    07:28       That is hilarious. I had no idea. This is good to know. But now I feel like, you know, Australia is actually on my bucket list. So if I ever actually make it to Australia, I'm going to feel a little sensitive and try not to say super. Cause I don't want to fit into the stereotype.

Rebecca:     07:43       Yeah. Well, I mean, you are always going to fit into the stereotype. You can't really get away from that because it is who you are, but it is true. You have to embrace it. Embrace it. Here in South Australia, we have the same way that you use super. We use heaps. And it is just South Australia. It is just in my state. And we say things are heaps good. Whereas you'd say it is super good or super awesome, we say heaps good.

Warfield:    08:08       That is interesting.

Rebecca:     08:08       I didn't even realize it until it was used as a kind of an advertising slogan in my state. That we were the only state that said it. And it is quite hilarious actually.

Warfield:    08:18       I had no idea. And so you are in Adelaide as you said, and is that name? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like I just met someone who lived in that area. Are you close, is that area very, very, very close to the ocean?

Rebecca:     08:33       Yeah, we're on the beach. Yeah, the city.

Warfield:    08:37       Okay, I thought so.

Rebecca:     08:37       So Adelaide is a very long, thin city and it sits on the coast and it is in central Australia. So, if you look, most people know where all the Rue would, or Ear's Rock in, which is like pretty much in the center of Australia. And if you drew a line from the top of Australia, Darwin through the Rue and then right down to the bottom coast, then you'd hit Adelaide. So we are on a gulf and Adelaide is on the beach and it is a long, thin one. So it is got hills on one side and beach on the other. We lived just near the foothills, so we're about half an hours drive from the beach. Cause only takes half an hour to drive from one side. Well a bit more, forty minutes drive from one side of the city to the other. So it is too far at all, but then it is about two hours long.

Warfield:    09:24       Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I have not been to Australia, but I do really like these coastlines that are sort of hills on one side and ocean on the other. I don't know if you've ever been to San Diego, but it is one of the more interesting coast lines I've ever seen, because to my left was the beach to my right with these huge cliffs, but I'm also surrounded in desert climate. It is really interesting.

Rebecca:     09:48       Yeah. Well that is pretty much what it is like here. Yeah, it is what it is like here in Adelaide. It is not very desert-y right in the city and close surrounds, but not far away is farmland. And it is a lot dryer. And then of course it is very, very dry. We've got deserts in the middle of the state. Yeah. So it is very, and I've been to the west coast of United States and it is very similar with the beach on one side and looking north, you've got the beach on your left, and then the hills on the right. And Adelaide's very much the same. And so it is just the houses a bit smaller. When you sort of in L.A., you can see the hills while you are at the beach and Australia it is the same, it is just the hills are a lot closer.

Warfield:    10:31       That is awesome. Well, now that we all have a good, nice geography lesson. Awesome. So moving from geography to decluttering, I need you in my life. So you are a declutter coach. And can you tell us a little bit about how you got into decluttering and what draw drew you to becoming a decluttering coach?

Rebecca:     10:53       Okay. I took a different path to a lot of people. A lot of people become professional organizers or de-clutter coaches because they are really naturally organized. And people sort of say to them, you should do this for living. And so they say, oh yeah, I'd like to do that. And off they go and do it. I'm actually naturally really disorganized and I have a very chaotic personality, a very, gregarious, easily distracted, emotion-based personality. And that doesn't lend itself very well to organization because we also tend to be creative, and half do projects and leave a whirlwind of a bit of a mess behind us as we move through.

Warfield:    11:35       I was just talking about this with a friend yesterday, cause I'm a little bit of a spaz, I'm like all over the place, all the time because I'm doing a hundred different projects. But that is just part of my creative personality. I'm always thinking about the next fun, not really fun thing to do in terms of like, let's party, but the next thing I can create, you know? But with that comes, not just chaos in my office space, but in my brain too.

Rebecca:     12:00       Yeah, exactly. You are right, it is so busy and, and you can't really, it isn't, how do I say the word incongruity? It is when, the speed that your brain is working and the speed that your body can’t actually keep up. And the speed that your environment can’t keep up as well. And you just can't, like your environment just can't keep up with the way your brains going. And so you end up just leaving this mess, a trail of destruction behind you. And that is how I've always been. And, then I moved in with my now husband who is very neat and tidy and precise and methodical and conscientious and I'm none of those things. And I moved in and I just, and I moved into his house. It was already his house. And I moved in and I just spread my shit everywhere.

Warfield:    12:48       Aaron, my boyfriend knows all about this. I moved in with him a few years ago and his house was like spotless. [inaudible 12:52] with me, all these pets, all this stuff. And he's like, I remember this time when my house was like very, very clean. It was like empty too, but not any more.

Rebecca:     13:04       And same here. And I thought, look, this guy's going to kick me out if I don't stop annoying him by leaving my mess everywhere. And so I bought a book on organizing. And I just, I was inspired by this book so much. And I found that it was written by a woman who used to be messy and then got organized. And so that just really inspired me as well. And I just sort of got the house organized and I managed to keep it that way. I'm still untidy, but everything has a home. And so it is easy to tidy up when, when everything [inaudible 13:40] home. So even though I'm untidy and there's always bits laying about, if I wanted it to look tidy, it would take me a matter of minutes and it would be done. But, the book inspired me and I started talking and thinking about wanting to do this for a living and everyone around me was like, what? You? Really? You are not organized.

Warfield:    14:01       [inaudible 14:01] that I've always known.

Rebecca:     14:03       Exactly. And, so I decided to do it for living and for a while my husband was like, yeah, okay. And he was just humoring me and then I'd stuck with the idea. And so eventually he said, we'll do a business plan and if I think it is got legs, I reckon, maybe go ahead with it. And I did a business plan, and he thought it had potential. Cause he's a bit of a business guy and so we went ahead with it. And that was 15 years ago.

Warfield:    14:30       Gosh, that is amazing.

Rebecca:     14:32       Yeah. 10 years into the business, he left his corporate career and he now works in the business as well.

Warfield:    14:37       So that is amazing.

Rebecca:     14:41       So he has come along.

Warfield:    14:42       So, his business projections were correct then?

Rebecca:     14:46       Exactly. He said, yeah, this has got legs, this is a feasible business and it is. And so, yes, now it feeds the family.

Warfield:    14:53       That is amazing. So that is a pretty awesome story. And so with your business then, do you help other people declutter their lives?

Rebecca:     15:04       Yes. That is exactly what I do.

Warfield:    15:07       Okay. First, can you come to the United States of America and help me?

Rebecca:     15:12       Definitely, I've never been to North Carolina, so that would be awesome.

Warfield:    15:21       Yeah, it is an interesting state. You have the coast, the Atlantic Ocean on one side, and then when you head to the west, there's the most beautiful mountains, you know? I mean, it is like far west, like five hours. Beautiful Mountains. It is a pretty interesting state for sure. It is in the south though, so it has its own set of, [inaudible 15:37] if you will.

Rebecca:     15:41       I think I'm a big fan of the Walking Dead. I think they film...

Warfield:    15:45       They are in Georgia.

Rebecca:     15:46       Oh, they're in Georgia. [inaudible 15:46] some of it in Atlanta, Georgia. But I thought they went into North Carolina.

Warfield:    15:51       They may have actually, there is a film industry, actually, Wilmington, North Carolina once was one of the top places in the United States to make film because we had a tax break for film makers. But I don't know, the government did some weird stuff with it and we don't have as much filming now. Though the Walking Dead may have been here, but a lot of the films and TV shows went to Georgia, after that. But anyway, so decluttering, so you have sort of a list of ways to share with us about de-cluttering and I do want to ask you, before you get into anything. When you talk about decluttering, are you talking just about decluttering your home and your physical life or is this also sort of de-cluttering within or is it both? What's going on here?

Rebecca:     16:43       You can't declutter your space and your belongings without first dealing with what's in your head. So they are very much tied. And people try to, they try, but that is generally ends up just being tidying and it then reverts back to how it used to be. If you don't change your mindset, then your surroundings cannot change. They just can't change in a long-term. You can change your mindset and not change your surroundings. But very rarely does that happen. Usually they just go hand in hand with each other. And so I work on both simultaneously or just the one depending on the client's needs. There are some clients who once they speak to me and we get a plan and I work on the mental clutter, then they're fine going off by themselves and dealing with the physical stuff. But then others need me with the physical as well. So I actually get in there and roll up my sleeves and sort stuff out.

Warfield:    17:38       So what are some ways then to first declutter the mindset, to shift the mindset, so you can move into the physical space?

Rebecca:     17:50       There's quite a few different ways and people have different obstacles to getting organized and getting their space the way they want it to be. Everyone's different. So they'll all have different goals about how they want their space to look or function. And so depending on that, that really dictates what it is that they need to change their mindset about. So for example, somebody who's main obstacle in getting control of this space is their shopping habits. They would need to look at their acquisition habits, their shopping habits, and the mindset around shopping and look at the psychology of why they do shop. Why they have the need to keep acquiring new things. All that kind of stuff needs to be looked at first because unless you look at that, you can decode it to your heart's content, but it is only just going to fill up again. So there's that acquisition problem.

Rebecca:     18:39       Then this, the letting go problems. So people become attached to their belongings. And even though intellectually they want to let go because they know life is easier with this things to tidy up and put away. And dust and make our rooms [inaudible 18:51] kind of stuff. When they do make the intellectual decision to let go their emotions and take over and say, no, I can't because it was given to me by somebody; or I spent good money on it; or it reminds me of this time; or I might need it some day; or I'm going to make something with it because it is beautiful. And there's all of those different, objections to letting go, that come up in people's minds. And so we need to figure out what those objections are first, and then look at why. Why is that objection? And is it a valid objection?

Rebecca:     19:24       You know, people say, hey, I might need it someday. And that is not a good reason to keep something because it is just a prediction. It is not even a fact. And so, its not a good reason to keep something. And so what I do with clients who say, I might need it someday. I say, do you know what you are actually saying to me? What you saying to me is, I'm not prepared to deal with the consequences of not having this, should I need it. After I've decluttered it. That is actually what they're saying. It is not, I might need it someday. It is more I'm afraid that I'm going to be inconvenienced or that I'm going to suffer some kind of loss. And so when you actually say, all right, so if you only had three can openers instead of six can openers, what are the consequences? And most of the people go, oh, well no, that is not such a big deal.

Rebecca:     20:12       But 30 seconds ago they were saying, no, I cannot part with these can openers, because I might need them some day. But we make these gut instinctive reaction of, no, no, I must keep it and it is a fear-based reaction. But then once we actually analyze what we're afraid of, we're actually afraid of something that isn't scary at all. And so we can then come to terms with the idea of, oh, we'll actually, maybe that is not a logical argument and I can probably let go.

Warfield:    20:38       It is interesting because I can only think about this in my own experiences. I do not have a letting go problem. I love to get rid of stuff. But that the acquisition that you are talking about, usually when I'm in the mood to start letting things go, it is because somehow I have all this shit and I don't know where it came from. Maybe like how did I end up with, so... I was just cleaning out my closet the other day. I was like, how did I end up with so much of this stuff? It is insane. I had the two copies of a number of books. I had two copies of like how did this even happen?

Rebecca:     21:14       That is so interesting.

Warfield:    21:15       How do we get there? Please help me.

Rebecca:     21:19       Well for you it sounds like you are not shopping mindfully. Cause if you've got duplicates of things, you are shopping for reason other than need. And that reason could be various reasons and it can be very deep or it can be not very deep at all. But you know there are lots of reasons why we shop and usually it is because we think it is going to make us feel better and or our life is going to be better. So you see a book and you think my life will be better if I read that book. Or you see a ,jacket and you think I'm going to be so much happier if I have that jacket. And it is mostly a subconscious thought. You actually don't go consciously through that thought. If you actually, did consciously think that, you'd probably pull yourself up, and you probably say, maybe I wouldn't be that happy with it, you know. But it is an unconscious thought of, because we are told, or our entire lives from the moment we can comprehend it, we are told that what we have isn't good enough and that we must have better and more. And we have this culture better through advertising, and through fashion, and through capitalism, in general, consumerism in general that we need, we cannot possibly, not buy something.

Warfield:    22:32       Yeah. And a lot of times in my English classes when I teach literature here at UNC Wilmington and we come across these situations or scenarios in texts a lot. Where we talk about to have, is to be. The more things you have, the more you feel like you exist in the world, which of course isn't true, but I think our culture is set up that way. That the more things you have, the more legit your existence is. Which you know, is not true. But that is how it feels.

Rebecca:     23:03       Yeah, exactly. That is what we've been told subconsciously and actually directly. There are definitely ads that say, your life will be better if you have this. And I'm thinking of like car ads. When you look at a car ad, they show the perfect family or they show the perfect group of young friends and they make it look like, you are missing out on something because you are not sitting on a beach with two brand new four wheel drives behind you. And six of your mates around a fire, or having fun and laughing and someone's on a banjo and you are eating marshmallows. And when you see that and you are like, well I'm sitting at home eating noodles from a cup and I can't get up because my cat's on my lap.

Rebecca:     23:52       And, and then you are seeing that and you are like, oh, maybe if I bought a Jeep that my life would be like that. It is really subconscious. They do it subconsciously. And it is just in us. And so, when we feel the need to improve our lives, one of the first things we think of is to go shopping. And that is the reason why the retail therapy is a word, a phrase.

Warfield:    24:13       And I often feel, I don't know how other people feel who live in bigger areas, but Wilmington, North Carolina is relatively small, and I often feel, especially in the winter when it is not ideal to go to the beach or do things out on the water, if you want to go do anything, the only thing there is to do is shop. You know what I mean? Which isn't really true. I'm sure there's lots of other things to do, but [inaudible 24: 36] out and about, you send [inaudible 24:39]

Rebecca:     24:39       Yeah. It is no longer a necessity. Like it sorts no longer a task that you do out of necessity. It is something that you choose to do for recreation. And I always encourage people, don't take your kids shopping. Don't make shopping a bonding experience because your children are going to grow up equating shopping with feeling loved and they're much healthier ways to have people feel love, than when they are shopping. It ends up in bad habits and it is just something that people do together as a bonding activity. And I think that is really unhealthy. We should be shopping when we need something and not when we want to feel better.

Warfield:    25:29       Yeah. And you know, I was born in that eighties, early nineties mall culture. Where like the cool thing to do was to go to the mall, and hang out with your friends. And I have a lot of memories of my mom and I bonding over shopping.

Rebecca:     25:44       My mom and aunt, my mom's still, that is still one of my mom's languages is, is she loves to go shopping with me and she knows that I'm not a big fan of it. And so she doesn't expect it very much, but she does like me to go shopping with her. She takes great pleasure in it. And I'm older than you. I'm giving it away, probably the same age, similar age to you, but yeah, in the 80s and the 90s, you would go to the shopping center, which is what it was called at my city. When I was growing up, go to the shopping center on a Friday night with late night shopping and hang. And that is just what you would do. And, and people still do it now. I mean, it is clearly, it is still done now. I just don't think it is healthy and I have tried to not do that with my kids and we've never really gone shopping as a family, as a recreation activity, ever. I think the only times we've done it, is when we've been tourists. So we were in Hong Kong and while we're waiting for a train, we're like, oh, let's go look in the mall and wander around and buy some things. So we would do that, but, it is just not something that we have ever really done. And so when we all need coats, we either individually go out and buy our clothes on our own. Or maybe one of the parents would take the child shopping. But my oldest, she shops for her own clothes now, on her own time. And my son still needs to be taken because otherwise he just wears things until they fall off him.

Warfield:    27:19       That is just how guys roll. I swear, [inaudible 27:20] Aaron has the same tee shirts that, I mean, some of them are like free shirts that he got at like tournament's or something and they have the date on them and it says like 2003. I'm like, Aaron, it is like 17 million years ago. What is happening here? You know? So I think that...`

Rebecca:     27:36       He's actually doing a really healthy thing. He's not replacing something because it is just old. He's keeping it and he's not acquiring something simply because what he has is old, which is just what we do. Fast fashion is just, it is just awful for the environment. It is awful for our self esteem. It is awful for our bank accounts. There's just nothing good about it. Well, the only good thing about it is that you can have some fun and expressing yourself. But you can have fun expressing yourself with homemade clothes, or with clothes that you get from a charity store. It is just that fashion tells us that we need to wear certain type, otherwise we're going to look stupid. And so we buy the new things because we don't want to look stupid. And it is just the fashion culture that tells us we look stupid. We actually don't. I mean in the 80s we thought we looked pretty great, but put on, one of those, well actually I was going to say the 80s fashions are back in now. But if you were to put on, I don't know, I cannot even think of something that is not in fashion. See, I don't even know, fashionable enough to talk about what's not in fashion.

Warfield:    28:46       I teach yoga full time, so I'm just constantly in yoga pants and floppy tank tops. So I don't know anymore either.

Rebecca:     28:52       Yes, I would if I could get away with that too. Sometimes I have to look a little bit more dressed up for clients, but when I'm at home, I am in my comfort year, that is for sure.

Warfield:    29:02       I do know that Aaron listens to Dharma Drops Podcast and I promise you that when he listened to this episode, he is going to be like, see I told you my free tees are awesome.

Rebecca:     29:12       Yeah, he's got a fan here. Although that said, free stuff is another thing to avoid. Free staff causes clutter because we take it simply because it is free, not because we need it. And then it is another non-mindful acquisition that we bring into our home, we have to find a place for. Water bottles given away at trade expos and, and events like that you go to. They're just making landfill and giving it to you, and so that you fill your house up with landfill. And then you get tired of that and empty it off and then it goes into our oceans and it is just all for no good reason and it is frustrating. All this free stuff is, so one of the, one of the habits of uncluttered people is to refuse free stuff. Just say no opt out.

Warfield:    30:07       That is interesting. I like that the habits of uncluttered people. So one would be to refuse things. So when someone has some stuff for you for free, you say no, or does that mean when things are given to you, or just in general? Like refuse to buy things.

Rebecca:     30:22       Just in general, refuse to buy anything that you don't need? One of my favorite mantra that I tell my clients, especially the bargain hunters and the op shoppers. Do you call them op shops in America? Charity stores. We call them op shops.

Warfield:    30:38       Maybe like second-hand stores sometimes too.

Rebecca:     30:44       Yeah. So we call them op shops. It is short for opportunity shop. So op shops, op shopping in Australia, it is quite popular, as it is a thrift store, I guess.

Warfield:    30:53       It is popular here too.

Rebecca:     30:55       Yeah. And I sort of say to the people that go off shopping, is you have to be really careful that you are only purchasing things that are already on your shopping list. Whereas op shopping through shopping, it doesn't lend itself to that because you can't just say, okay, I've got a gray blazer on my list and then walking into a thrift shop and walk out with the gray blazer, in your size, it just doesn't happen. You walk into a thriftshop and you walk out with seven things that you didn't have on your list.

Warfield:    31:24       And not the grey blazer.

Rebecca:     31:26       And no the grey blazer, becasue there doesn't happen to be a grey blazer there. And so I say to clients all the time that this is what I want you to remember. If you didn't need it before you saw it, you can't have it. And that is a really powerful way to stop buying things unconsciously, unmindfully, and unintentionally. Because if you have a list in your mind of the things that you need in your home, in your wardrobe, wherever it might be, then when you do go shopping, if you see something that looks enticing and it is not on your list, you can't buy it because it is not on your list. And what that does is it short circuits the psychology of discounts and the psychology of cheap things. Because value of something is always increased in our minds, as soon as we see that we're getting a bargain. I went shopping with a friend once and she took me deliberately because she was a shopping addict and I was a boring killjoy. So she took me, that I could make sure she did. And she also said she was taking me so that she could teach me how to get a life.

Rebecca:     32:37       [inaudible 32:37] was the phrase, I'll teach you to live a little. And so we went shopping and I made her write a list of the things that she needed before we went into the department store. And we were there and wondering around. And she came up to me with two dresses in her hands and they were work dresses. I said, okay, so you are there for work, you should get [inaudible 32:54] were they on your list, so we're allowed to get a work dress. She said, help me decide which one I want. And I said, okay, which one color, which one color suits you best? And she waived the left one at me. And I said, which one fits you best? And she waived the left one at me and I said, which one have you already got shoes for? And she waved to left one at me and I said, which one goes with other things that you've gotten?

Rebecca:     33:13       She waved the left one at me. And I said, why are we having this conversation? It is clearly the one that you've got in your left. Why are you even considering the one on your right? And she said, well, the one on my right is $120 down from $250, the one on my left is a $120 and down from $180, I want the $250 one. And she would have bought it because the bargain, the saving that she is making, was so enticing to her and it was such a strong pull that I had to virtually wrestle that one out of her hand. [inaudible 33:45] And another thing I did that that day is I made her buy full-priced pants. She never would buy anything full price. She was complete bargain hunter. And I said to her, you need some black pants for work and you are going and we're going to buy some full price ones.

Rebecca:     34:00       And she thought, why? And I said, just trust me. So we found a pair she wore, they were $130 and she put them on, she said, I would never ever normally spend this much on a pair of pants. And she spent a long time deciding which ones she got. And then she bought them and she texted me a few months later and she said, can I thank you for making me buy those pants? She said, Oh, I would've bought a $40 pair and then I would have lasted three weeks. And then they would've written up my backside or pulled in a spot, or been too long, or been too short, and I would've just put them aside and gone and bought another pair. [inaudible 34:31]

Warfield:    34:33       I was actually just thinking about that. So years ago I used to buy more items but of cheaper value, but then they'd be ruined within a few weeks. I go to these stores, I don't know if you have these in Australia, but places like TJ Max, where it is sort of like if companies made too much, or didn't sell or something like that and things are marked down, I would go buy a ton of stuff from there. And then within a month I have two piles of clothes, none of which have held up, but I don't want to get rid of anymore. So actually over the last few years, one of the things I've been doing is even if I have to spend more money, I'll get something better, something nicer that will last longer so I don't have to have 500 pairs of jeans. I just have three pairs of jeans, all of which are very nice. And that I love a lot.

Rebecca:     35:20       Exactly. And it is not just the how long they last either it is how well they suit you. Because if you are going to spend $300 on a pair of jeans, you are not leaving that store with a compromise. You are leaving the store with a pair of jeans that goes with everything else in your wardrobe. That fit like a dream that is exactly the right size. And how many times have we bought, all of us have done it, and I have done it myself. Bought a pair of shoes, that is half a size too small because they were really cool and they were half price. It is just something we do. And so I mean I haven't done that for a very long time. I'm getting much better at it. Practice makes perfect, but it is something that we just generally do because the bargain is so enticing.

Rebecca:     36:01       And so when we buy something based on a perceived discount or perceived value or getting some kind of deal. We are then going to compromise on quality and we're going to compromise on fit. We're going to compromise on style. And so I always encourage people to pay full price or to intend to pay full price. And then if you then go to the counter and they go, oh, you are lucky this is,30% off, then you can have a little party. But you've made the decision based on the full price, which means that you are not going to compromise, you are not going to walk out with anything that is not going to last you. And is not going to get loads and loads of wear.

Warfield:    36:39       So let me ask you though, what would you tell someone who maybe doesn't have the income? Cause I mean, being able to buy things full price. That is a luxury in life, you know? So what would you tell someone who's like, ey, I want to declutter and I want to have less stuff, but I can't afford to pay that much for stuff. So what would, what would you suggest to those people?

Rebecca:     37:03       I would say that most of them can afford it because I work with a lot of people in very low incomes and they have more stuff than I do. The thing is they have a high quantity and low quality. And what it really means is that what they might need to do is learn how to wait for things. So to save up. So instead of going and buying five tshirts for $5 each. You wait and you save up and you go and buy one $25 tshirt. And it is all about, I mean obviously you would, if you didn't have any tshirts and you didn't have time to save up to buy a tshirt, you would need to buy a cheap one. But in the long-term, the habit would be, learn how to wait, learn how to really research, find exactly what you are looking for. Take your time and, and save up for it. Because I do know so many people with three times the amount of clothes that I have and a quarter of the income that I have. And interesting what they've done is bought quantity over quality and they have not bothered waiting. They've not been able to wait. So instead of saying, okay, I'm going to save up for a year for a really good pair of jeans, they say I'm going to go and buy a pair of $15 jeans, right, today because I want them now. And that is the difference. And I think that, I mean I'm definitely not discounting people who are really struggling, but even people who really struggling can still be mindful about their acquisitions.

Rebecca:     38:38       You can buy really good quality stuff at thrift shops and that is another option of getting something cheap and avoiding that whole fast fashion, low quality purchasing. It does take a bit more work. Finding something that fits you perfectly and suits you and is exactly what you needed. A thrift shop takes some effort and time for shopping.

Warfield:    39:00       Thrift shopping stresses me out, I can't go often cause it is ahunt.

Rebecca:     39:05       Yeah. I can't do it either. It is certainly not enjoyable. I've got a friend who loves it. She finds it, well, a few friends that find it so much fun. And to me it is torture because I know what I want in my mind and I walk in there. And do you think I can find the bloody thing? No, because it is not in there. And I'm still, every time I walk into a thrift shop I look for, and this is why I used the gray blazer as an example before, because I made a grey blazer. And um, every time I walk into an op shop, I look for a grey blazer and I haven't found one in like two years that I've been looking. And it is so frustrating. In that years I could've been saving up for really good quality one, but I've been able to survive with my black blazers.

Warfield:    39:47       I think that is a really important point. You know, this podcast is, I call it a yoga-ish podcast. And so sometimes I try to relate things back to the yoga practice. I'm not, do you practice yoga? I wouldn't even talk about that.

Rebecca:     40:00       I do enjoy yoga, but I'm really poorly disciplined and so I'm hopeless at doing it on my own. And I go to classes, we'll do a series of classes. I really enjoy it. I did do hot yoga once, that Bikram yoga.

Warfield:    40:17       I don't do hot yoga.

Rebecca:     40:18       Oh my god. It is where it nearly killed me. It turns out, and I figured out these after, I did hot yoga and ended up with heat stroke, that I have, neil hydrosis. So that is a condition that means you don't sweat. And I didn't really realize that I had it. And you always knew that my face didn't sweat, that I overheated easily, but I didn't realize it was a condition. And I did this hot yoga. I am in yoga, and I can hear the sweat dripping on the mats. Like it was like pitter, patter of rain, around me. And I'm looking at my own skin and I had developed a little bit of a sheen on my skin and that is all I had. And then I had heat stroke and a migraine for a week. And so I was like, well, I'm not doing that again. Then I figured out that I had this conditions site. Yeah, definitely not, but, normal yoga doesn't overheat me, so I can definitely enjoy it.

Warfield:    41:10       So I'll get back to decluttering in a second. But a hot yoga to each their own. And I think hot yoga is great for some people, but I don't know about hot yoga. The goal in yoga is to build your own heat, to like, it is called og ne, to build a fire within and hot yoga. I don't know about that stuff, man. It doesn't do it for me. It just makes me upset and super sweaty and then I'm in a bad mood after doing it.

Rebecca:     41:35       Yeah. And that was pretty much what it did for me as well. Won't ever do that again? But yeah, I do enjoy real yoga, normal yoga. And I love the stretches. You know, sometimes there's one particular pose and I don't know what it is called or anything like that cause I'm so hopeless at remembering things, but it is sort of when you squat and then you can like, you put your hands underneath your feet. So you sort of squatting like a frog, you look like a frog. And that stretches my low back beautifully. And sometimes on Clinton Client sessions, I'll just get down in this squat, I just say to clients, I need to just be a frog for a minute, cause I need to stretch my lower back. Oh, it is such a devine stretch.

Warfield:    42:17       That is awesome. But in the yoga practice, in the teachings of yoga. We often talk about a term called santo sha, which means contentment. And I think it is interesting because you said, you've been on the hunt for this gray blazer for two years, but you found that the black blazer will do just fine. You know, and I think that is a good example of contentment. That just being okay with what is, the drive to always have more the drive to change up our wardrobe. It just, I think suggests that we're not happy with the way our lives are, but it is not really about the blazer, right? It is really about what you want that blazer to represent. So santo sha would ask us then, can we be content with what is, in our lives? Not, in terms of the material world, but can we just be cool with the way life is?

Rebecca:     43:10       That is it is the key to happiness is accepting what you have as good enough. If you stop, if you realize that what you have is good enough, you stopped wanting, and if you stop wanting, you stop being dissatisfied with what you have. It really is the key. And this is that other, another key to having lower levels of clutter and having a nice simple life, is to stop wanting things. And it does take a lot of practice. I still want things, but there I'm much better at saying, but I'm okay without it.

Warfield:    43:48       Right. Because I mean the world's not going to end. Life isn't going to end if you don't have your gray blazer. And sometimes I have to remind myself when all of this is said and done, when this physical body is through with this world, none of this shit matters.

Rebecca:     44:02       And what we ended up doing at the end of our life is burdening, our loved ones with all of our stuff. We part of our business, when, when Nick joined the business, initially he decided he was going to help me with, the back end of the business. So do all the accounts and our children were in primary school, leading towards, say middle school in America. And at that point, and he said he will do all the school runs, do all the driving around, all the cooking and the cleaning of the housework and all of that. Well I got to work more on the business. Cause prior to that I was the one working part time and doing the childcare stuff and he was working full time.

Rebecca:     44:44       So we switched it about and after a year of doing that, when it was quite successful, he doubled my income that year. And, but then he got bored and he said, I just want to do something on my own. And so I said, okay. And he said, I want to do downsizing services and estate clearances. And so what he does now, and we've got two different arms to the business. So, when often, we do crossover, like tomorrow we're working all day together, but we often work with independent clients, but he manages people moving from the big family home into a retirement village.

Warfield:    45:14       Ellen Tracy also.

Rebecca:     45:16       It is a senior move management, is generally what it is referred to in the US a lot and an estate clearances. And I see so many people stressed out and burdened by what their family has left when they've passed on. And I just think, I don't want to do that to my kids either. And that is another reason why I try to simplify my life as well as to just not burden them and to make it easy for them to know that everything that I had I loved and that was special. And they don't have to agonize over what was special and what wasn't. They just know what special because it is here. And then there's less of it and they can feel comfortable as well. The fact that I am happy to part with things means that they're not going to feel guilty partying with it when I'm gone either because they'd be like, well, she'd be cool with that. And so it is sort of not, not burdening them is something that I, sort of feel quite strongly about as well.

Warfield:    46:09       It is interesting and that is actually something I worry about sometimes, you know, which it is crazy, but I do think about that. I'm like, when like my mom, for example, if you are listening to this mom's sorry, but when my mom moves onto the other side, like how are we all going to deal with all this? Because not only are we all spread across the country now that is like, even if we lived in the same town, that is an enormous undertaking. We're a spread all over the United States. Some in Arizona, my brother actually lives kind of close to her in Maryland. I'm in North Carolina and I think about this, how do we do that? Because there's so much stuff.

Rebecca:     46:44       Yeah. And that is what happens. And that is what Mick does. He's often working with some of his clients, he never meets there. They live overseas and their family member passes away in Adelaide and they contact him and he, he does the work. And there is this, I don't know how they, a lot of them would do it without Mick, it probably just wouldn't get done at all. Leave the property as it is.

Warfield:    47:07       So what are some other habits of uncluttered people? Probably boundaries is a really big one. People who don't have clutter have strong boundaries. They have boundaries around what comes in. So they don't, I mean, it is linked to the acquiring that we were about before. But they have rules about acquiring. They only acquire things that they need, and that they've thought a lot about, and that are of a certain quality or the quality that they want. And that also, boundaries around how much space your stuff can take up. And so boundaries are really helpful in that way because it means that you can, you can not become overloaded that say for example, you decide that you have one bookcase and that is where you are keeping your books and you can't have any more books than will fit in that bookcase. People without boundaries would acquire more books. And they would find other places to stash those books. People with boundaries would acquire more books still, especially if it is something that is important to them, but they would practice maybe practice, one in one out. So they acquire five books. There's only room for three of them on the bookcase. So another couple have to leave in order to make room for the last two. So it is about maintaining the boundaries, which then keep a lid on the volume of possessions. And so you are always in control. Boundaries are important. And boundaries are also important when it comes to simplifying our life from a schedule perspective as well. We over-schedule ourselves far too much. We over-schedule...

Warfield:    49:01       And again, I am weak. This podcast is for me, I'm always offering this to others, but this one's for me.

Rebecca:     49:09       Well, I'm just going to change that slightly now because I'm going to talk about kids. So, okay.

Warfield:    49:14       Not Anymore.

Rebecca:     49:14       Not for the moment. But, we over-scheduled our kids as well. And when we over schedule our kids, we over-schedule as selves and there are so many parents that are out of their mind with exhaustion. But still allow their children or insist that their children, one of the to have five after school and weekend activities. One of the things that is proven in studies, as a predictor of success, later in life for children, is whether or not they had family meals, growing up. Now that is an indicator of future success. It is a proven indicator. You are much more likely to have to be successful in your, your job, your life, your relationships later in life. If you have family dinners together. So we know that, there are studies have proven it. However, society's also telling us, your children need to do three sports and two musical instruments.

Speaker 3:  50:23       So then each do, three sports and two musical instruments awake in order to be successful. Now if you are doing two instruments and three sporting activities awake and you've got three children, you are not going to be sitting all down for dinner every night together. So you've got these two competing things happening and if we can just ignore ,cultural pressure and just say no one sport, one instrument and meals together and that is a boundary that you place and it is a rule that you set for the household. Then you are still going to get your, your meals together. And that is the important thing. And there are other indicators of future success with children as well. But that is just one example of how we have these well known example of, or well known strategy for success later in life. And we allow culture, our culture to force that out of our routine. And, what placing boundaries around and saying, no, you can't do three sports. You can do one sport and if you want to do an instrument, you can do one instrument as well in that stage. They still being active, they still getting their development but you are not exhausted. And you are getting more time to do the really important things that matter.

Warfield:    51:36       I mean I don't have children but I think this is still even people who don't have children. I over-scheduled myself all the time, every single fall I do this and I know I do it, but fall for me, is always very busy because school starts and I teach. And then I also have my yoga classes; and I have my business; and I dance; and fall seasons like a pretty busy time for rehearsals for me. Cause we have a big performance always every year in November. And then I have a meltdown in November, every single time.

Rebecca:     52:07       Do you get sick?

Warfield:    52:08       I do get sick. I get a respiratory infection almost every single fall or winter, which is a real bum.

Rebecca:     52:17       Yeah. And it is because you are over doing it. And it is a terrible habit because another thing that our culture has forced us to believe in, is that in order to be successful, we must be busy.

Warfield:    52:31       Oh I think about this all the time. Cause I also think that is a byproduct of the 90s. Like they're sort of yuppie. Like I'm doing so much, I'm so busy. The busier you are, the more important you are.

Rebecca:     52:43       Yes, exactly. We did a whole episode on this in the podcast and all about the psychology of busy and why, we feel it is so important to be busy all the time and it is not, it is damaging us. It is harming us and yet it is still regarded as a status symbol and it is something that I really, I really hope does change overall in the long-term. It is definitely changing. There's definitely a movement out there. The slow movement is strong out there and I love that it is gaining ground because there is a lot to be said for slowing down and just realizing that your success isn't based necessarily on your productivity.

Warfield:    53:28       Yeah, for sure. There's that meme that I keep seeing circulating on Facebook. I forget what it is like - Your value was not your productivity.

Rebecca:     53:37       Yeah. Actually I only saw that a day or two ago myself.

Warfield:    53:40       Yeah, me too. Someone just posted it. But I think I saw it like a while ago, like last year or something. But I've been seeing it re-circulate. I like this though, because when we think about being cluttered or decluttered or often thinking about physical things. That happens to me, but probably I can only speak for myself. My number one issue is a cluttered schedule. It is crazy sometimes. So, I think that is interesting for us to think about because maybe for me, if my schedule wasn't so cluttered, my physical life wouldn't be cluttered cause I'd actually have time to deal.

Rebecca:     54:17       Exactly. I was just going say that and I thought, now I'm going to let her come to her own conclusion. And you did.

Warfield:    54:22       Look at you, a good coach.

Rebecca:     54:25       And it does, it has a [inaudible 54:28] and you know with your personality, because you are a bit of a whirlwind anyway. Even if you weren't over scheduled, you would still be leaving things half finished because you'd be jumping onto the next thing, because it is so much more exciting than finishing that old thing that you were doing. And that is really normal. And, but there is that flow on effect, on the busy you are, the less you finish and the less you finish, the more stuff you have laying around. So there is a direct correlation between how busy you are and the clutter that you accumulate around you. And it is not necessarily all clutter. You could still have only minimal, or normal, or low amount of belongings and you'll still make a big mess. And because you've just left it all out and about, it doesn't necessarily mean it is clutter because you use it and need it and love it, but it is still mess.

Rebecca:     55:18       And so you are still going to be producing that because you are just too busy to finish things. And we forget to be methodical. You would have obviously heard of Marie Kondo, because, you know, that as much you are living under a rock, you have heard of Marie Kondo. And even though her system doesn't work for my clients, I work with a lot of chronically disorganized clients with mental illnesses and disabilities. And so the system doesn't, I can't use the system with them but there are some great things about her system and one of them is the respect for our belongings and the methodical careful treatment off them. And when you are living in a whirlwind you are not treating these things very well, your leaving them out, you are throwing them about, your trip single over them when you leave them on the bedroom floor. You know when I'm with clients sometimes they just walk over the top of their belongings and they don't really have much of a choice, because they can't see the floor, but they do it without thinking.

Rebecca:     56:11       And if you can be more mindful about your belongings for me now, when someone stands on their belongings, I almost feel like a physical pain. II almost feel for that even though anthropomorphizing the object isn't really helpful, I do it anyway. And I just see, oh wow, that poor thing. And one of the things that I love about Marie Kondo is that respect and this great pleasure to be found in putting something away in its home lovingly and carefully. And it is something that, I'm naturally very much like you, personality wise. And so I do move very quickly and I've taken a lot of effort lately in putting things away carefully and slowly, almost reverently and slows you down. And it really does have a great effect on just clearing your mind a little bit. That whole mindfulness and you would know this, how good mindfulness is for our mental health that by doing that, we can treat our belongings. The way we treat up belongings can become almost like a little meditation.

Warfield:    57:18       And it is interesting you are saying that cause I was just thinking, one thing that I tried to do often, and this isn't so much with objects, but with food is I try to have a, just a really quick gratitude practice with my food. Like thank you. I'm one of the few, well, I shouldn't say few yoga teachers, but I am one yoga teacher, who is not a vegetarian. So like thank you for your life. And then, I like to garden and when I pull my vegetables, I thank the planet and I even thank the sun for giving that energy. And I hadn't thought about it in terms of material objects until now, but how much energy goes into all this production? Someone somewhere made these things you worked really hard to be able to afford these things. There's all this energy that goes into it and then to lay it on the floor, and walk all over it. That is like not a great gratitude practice for yourself or others.

Rebecca:     58:12       It is so true. I love that. I love that idea of thanking. Oh, I'm going to start doing that. I love the home office because, oh, sorry. Wait. When we are thinking about production of things as well, at the moment we have got an environmental crisis and there is also a lot of crisis of the treatment of people as well. And so there are a lot of things that we are buying that somebody has given up their life. Literally given up their life for, and we need to be aware of that as well.

Rebecca:     58:48       And we can be more mindful with our acquisitions when, when we actually think hard about that and if we are thinking the things that we have. And we are thinking about what was sacrificed for us to get those things, then we are going to acquire more mindfully, the next time we're shopping. And we're going to think long and hard, you know, do I really need another tshirt from this cheap store. That some poor nine year-old in Bangladesh, has spent eleven hours in a hot, dank room at risk of all sorts of horrible things to produce.

Warfield:    59:29       I think about this sometimes cause, and this is no like nothing against vegans or anything. The vegan sometimes, they'll talk about like the sacrifice that animals have had to make, but then they'll run over to Walmart, you know, and buy something very cheap. You know, it is not just vegans. This is just an example, kind of bit of clarity.

Rebecca:     59:47       It is exactly about general hypocrisy. We all do it.

Warfield:    59:51       Then there's this huge issue with human labor and child labor happening. So how can we, and maybe this isn't a question to answer today, but a question for us to ask ourselves, how can we be more mindful in what we buy? And I bet in turn we will buy less.

Rebecca:     01: 07       Yeah. Yeah. And needing less is the key. Once we decide we need less, then we can, it could have a really great flow on effect and from an environmental perspective and from a human's right human rights perspective, we can have a real impact. And we don't need billions of people doing ethical purchasing and recycling and all those kinds of things perfectly. We just need, you know, 3,000 of them doing imperfectly or is it the other way around? We don't need 3000 doing it perfectly. We need a billion of people just doing it imperfectly. With just, the little things that we can do, if you can buy five less tshirts a year, just think that that can have a real good impact. And if you refuse to buy from purchases from places that don't have good human rights writings, or ethical writings, then you are doing a good thing as well, because you are encouraging companies to then step up the game.

Rebecca:     01:01:03   And at the moment. I'm in a complete rage at the moment over a supermarket here in Australia. They did it last year, where they introduced a whole lot of little giveaways. So you would go and you'd make your purchase at the supermarket and if you spent a certain amount of money, you were then eligible for a certain amount of these little things. And what these little things are, are miniature versions of the most popular burst grocery brands. And so there was like a little one of washing powder, and then there's a bottle of water, and then this packet of biscuits, in a tin of Milo, and all that kind of stuff. And little minis are really cute. Like everyone loves miniature things. I don't know anyone who doesn't love minis. They are so cute, and so they're giving these things away and everyone in Australia went nuts for them. Nuts for these little pieces of landfill that are too small to fit in the recycling chains. Anyway, I did a big campaign online and told everyone how much I hated it and how stupid it was and all of that. [inaudible 01:02:09] would always listen to me. And then, this month is plastic-free July. And I know, you'd probably know about that. Is it international or is it just Australia?

Warfield:    01:02:20   I haven't heard that, but that doesn't mean that it is not here. Sometimes I do live under a rock, a little bit.

Rebecca:     01:02:29   Well, anyways, it was started in Perth, in Western Australia, this plastic-free July and it is has spread around the world. And so it is a bit of a global thing now and it is something that people will talk about a lot, is going plastic-free for July and or just reducing your plastic consumption for July. So this supermarket have announced this week in the middle of July, that they're doing another round of these little miniature pieces of landfill. And I'm just so mad at them, I can't even, I'm doing the whole millennial thing. I can't even, I just can't. I drives me insane. So there's petitions all over the place, like calling for Ann Boyd, people calling for boycott and I boycotted them last year and they are my regular supermarket. And it was so hard. I ended up going back to them because it was so hard for me to get things I wanted. So I'm trying to find a way now to do a slow boycott, some GenX, trying to think of product awake that I can find a different, place to buy it from. Like a bulk purchasing store or just a store that is not that supermarket. I tried to do it cold Turkey and I failed, because I have lots to do and it was just too much work for me.

Rebecca:     01:03:40   So I'm going to do it in little increments this time and I'm going to approach it the same way I did with my wardrobe and it is just, a little bit at a time. And it might take me four or five years to fully transition, but that is okay. It is still better than staying with them forever, I think. That is my little nothing to do with, well it is to do with clutter though. Like our kids end up with, with all this plastic shit, that no one asked for and, and then the parents have got to declutter it in however many years time. In the meantime they're standing on it, they're falling over it, they're yelling at their kids to clean up all the time, and it was no one asked for it. That is what makes me so mad, is nobody asked for this stuff to be made. And they make it because they want to sell more groceries.

Warfield:    01:04:21   That is the sort of stuff too that I never know what to do with. So I move it around for six years. First it is on the desk and then it is on the dresser, and now it moved to the table. That sort of stuff. It just finds a new home over and over and over again.

Rebecca:     01:04:35   Yeah. Or it is just a nomad. It never actually has a home. We have, we have lots of nomads, in our house. Well, my clients have lots of nomads in their homes. I don't., You name it and I can tell you where it lives in my house, but, most of my clients don't have homes for lots of things.

Warfield:    01:04:54   Well, this, I feel like I'm learning so much about my own life. Are there any other big points that you want listeners to know about decluttering? I feel like we hit some pretty big ones, but are there any other things you want folks to know?

Rebecca:     01:05:08   I think, did we talk about self-worth? I think we kind of touched on it, but that was another one.

Warfield:    01:05:13   A little bit, bit but not in entirety.

Rebecca:     01:05:14   Yeah. That is another one of the habits that uncluttered people have is that they don't base their self worth on their belongings and it is not about what they own, it is about who they are. And so it takes some time because it is built into us from a very young age. That money and belongings equals importance and we hopefully, hopefully the millennials are changing that around now because they're, they're much more minimalist. Yes. And they are changing the culture somewhat. And we're actually, I listened to a great episode of the Hidden Brain podcast not long ago where they actually talked about the emergence of a new class. And that class, although the people in that class tended to be, sort of middle-income earners and middle and upper income earners, but it actually wasn't necessarily based on your wealth. This class was, is based on your behaviors and this class.

Warfield:    01:06:14   That is interesting.

Rebecca:     01:06:17   And I think it is a new. It is going to be happening more and more and especially with millennials and now saying that this particular class are people who tend, do find this funny, they take yoga classes.

Rebecca:     01:06:30   What else do they do? They breastfeed. There are several different things that they do, but it is a particular new class and I find that really interesting that we are designed to develop classes based on behaviors. And you know, you can see it now coming in with the environmental behaviors and those kinds of things. And behaviors around gender; and the existence of non-binary; and the acceptance of non-binary; and all the whole queer range as well and all of that. And there's a lot of things that people are now, their self-worth is based on their values and their behaviors and not their belongings as much, which I think it is wonderful. And so people who are uncluttered have already got that down pat. Mostly. Sometimes, it still is there, it still exists, but for the most part, they think, I'm not going to be a better person if I have a brand new television. Or if I line up for an iPhone on the night it is released, I'm not going to be a better person for it, so I'm not going to bother doing it.

Warfield:    01:07:39   One o the thing that is really interesting. I don't know if this is true for technically I am a millennial. I was born in '`82 which is like the earliest they say is the millennial generation, but I do not really connect or identify with millennials who were born later. I'm more of that like I think they call it like X-ennials, that on the cusp?

Rebecca:     01:07:58   Yeah. I'm definitely an X. I was born in '75 so, [inaudible 01:08:02]

Warfield:    01:08:02   So I'm like kind of on the cusp. But my students at UNCW, they're younger, of course. I mean they're 18, 19, 20 year-olds and I read so much about this and I hear them. They are really good at saving money. My generation was not good at saving money. We were spend, spend, spend, spend, spend. They save money. I've read a lot of articles about how, they're renting smaller, cheaper, apartments, figure things, figuring things out, and they have a ton of money in their savings accounts. More than people my age or maybe even more than people your age or older because they're not buying as much stuff. They're living life differently. I don't know if that is because maybe at least for the United States, in post 2008, that was a real bummer for my part of the generation. We all finished college and graduate school in 2007, 2008 when the economy crashed and there's no jobs, you know? And so, I don't know, maybe it is because they were born into this culture that was already after an economic collapse. So just a different way of life.[inaudible 01:09:06]

Rebecca:     01:09:07   Well, this is the thing, I mean the 80s had the and the 90s had, or the early nineties anyway, had this sense of abundance. And an environment of abundance and it is more of an environment of scarcity now. I was just having this discussion at the dinner table a couple of hours ago,, actually with my kids who are, well I call them millennials, but they tell me that their GenZ because, they were born after 2002. So that is their calculation, by their calculations, millennials stopped being born in 2002.

Warfield:    01:09:42   Say like 20 years or so as a generational cycle?

Rebecca:     01:09:46   Something like that. So my kids say, no, we're, GenZ because we were born in 2003 and in 2004. I was having this discussion and I was sort of saying, oh, millennials are blamed for everything and you know, they were sort of being a bit defensive of millennials. And I said, yeah, they do get a bad rap in the media and stuff like that. There are made fun of and I said, but there's lots of good things about millennials and, although they do tend to be more entitled than any other generation. But apart from that, like you were saying, they've got some great ideas. They've got some, good heads on shoulders happening in that generation. And I'm quite excited as well about the next generation, GenZ coming through, because yeah, my kids are very careful with money as well, and I don't know if it is genetic or if it is taught by us, or if it is a generational thing. But they're quite good with their money and my son says, he goes, I want to be the first of my friends to buy a house and have my car.

Warfield:    01:10:47   That was not what I was saying when I was young.

Rebecca:     01:10:49   I ended up when I was 21, dating a man who was 12 years my senior. And so I sort of fell into a very grown up life. So I didn't sort of probably do the same things. I mean, I know a couple of my friends traveled and spent a lot of money until they were 30 and by the time I was 30 I had a couple kids. And so it was sort of a bit different from me. And so I'm, even though I'm a GenX, I'm kind of living the life of a Boomer. [inaudible 01:11:22] The kids that like they're in the high teens, we have paid off the mortgage, we've done all the boring things. And so all of that is been done. So I think, I don't really fit as well with the GenX, fairly.

Rebecca:     01:11:35   But, I know what you mean. And that is really interesting and that sort of bringing it back to stuff, those, younger generations are, they're attached. They're very attached to appearances. We all know the Instagram culture, but they're not as attached. And I mean, college, [inaudible 01:11:54] those kinds of things. They'd generally not attached to belongings. They want a nomadic existence. They want to be able to, just up and move, and up and leave, and do whatever they want. And so stuff isn't important to them, which is awesome. It means our economy might fall apart in 20 years. But it is, I think it is a good thing for the environment and for, this movement that I'm really in.

Warfield:    01:12:20   I don't know if you are familiar with the musical, Rent? It is kind of an older musical now.

Rebecca:     01:12:28   I've heard of it but I don't know much about it.

Warfield:    01:12:30   So I saw a production of Rent, it is been about a year ago actually. I really like musical theater, but somehow I made it through the nineties without seeing Rent. And it is just basically, it talks about a lot of different social issues, but it takes place in the 90s and it is this group of young people who are living in New York City and they're in this like cluttered apartment, but they're not paying rent and they refuse to do so. And the whole time I was watching this musical, I was like, god, these people are on my last nerve. And I read an article cause I had to Google it. I was like, Rent sucks, and everyone's going to hate me for that because there are people out there who are like, they're called Rent heads, they love Rent. But I read an article, I think it is in the New York Times that talked about why that musical didn't stand the test of time is because that mindset does not, excuse me. Millennials do not identify with that mindset. That, you know, they're saving money, they are paying rent, they're not in these like kind of shitty cluttered homes. They're a little more put together. And then what, say the nineties folks were, and so young people watch this musical and they're like, what's wrong with these people? So it is just kind of interesting that that has shifted. But it is interesting, like you said, that it has the potential to destroyed the economy.

Rebecca:     01:13:48   Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we're so dependent on spending. In Australia, when, when America had the recession in 2008 was it? In Australia, our government took quite drastic action at that time and they gave everybody, every member of the population pretty much. We did not get it. But everyone who earned, below a certain amount, just got a $3,000 payment of money, just cash straight in their account. And hey did that so that people would go out and spend it on big TVs, big screen TVs, which [i audible 01:14:27]

Warfield:    01:14:28   I remember, I don't remember what it was, that happened for tax return, one year that happened. There's like a, gosh, I'll never remember what it was called anymore, not a stipend. Everyone who's listening. Like a bonus. I think it was, it was after 9-11, because that was also another thing. You know, after 9-11, President Bush was saying, go out shop, buy things. Be normal. Which I mean, is a psychological level, I understand, but that is always the go to - shop.

Rebecca:     01:14:57   Yeah. Yeah. And that sustains our economy. Our economy is built on people spending money. And so, you know, this is the thing that we're fighting against, is that, this culture that is so, that hurts us so much, with our mental health, sustains us because it gives us jobs, and it does all those things. So we've got that, that sort of conflict there. And we're not going to fix it unless we fix our dependence on that consumerism culture. And that is going to be a really, really long-term fix if it ever happens at all, because we're so dependent on it. And we avoided a recession by doing that. Australia didn't have nearly the recession that America did, in that year because, and America's economy affects us greatly and that is why Australia went, very quickly, oh my god, we cannot have this happen to us, spend, spend, spend. And so everyone did spent like crazy and we managed to stay afloat. So we still had some problems. But nothing like what you had over there.

Warfield:    01:15:59   It was wild.

Rebecca:     01:16:01   Yeah. Oh, I just, the things that people tell me about, I just, there were just no jobs and nothing, no jobs, no hair.

Warfield:    01:16:08   I did end up with a job. It was really weird. I graduate the right time and they needed a teacher, but it wasn't the job I wanted and it is a job I eventually ended up leaving. So I got really lucky, but most people weren't quite so lucky.

Rebecca:     01:16:21   It is interesting. I think probably another thing that we haven't really talked about in great detail is the whole letting go.

Warfield:    01:16:34   Oh yeah. Which [inaudible 01:16:34] might be the biggest one. It really is one of the biggest ones aside from acquiring habits. Then, letting go would be the next biggest obstacle to getting rid of clutter or reducing clutter. We just get so attached to our belongings and it can be all sort of linked up into other things that we've talked about now. So it is linked up with our self worth. But it is also linked up with our values. We have lots of people who have very strong beliefs about the environment and so they can't throw anything up because they don't want it to go to landfill and, or they don't want it to damage the environment somehow.

Rebecca:     01:17:14   And I sometimes find it very paradoxical that those same people continue to acquire things. And I do remind them of that, that actually if you are, if you are not acquiring things, you'd have actually then not having to send something to landfill. Because one of the things that I say to clients, and a few of them have just looked at me and gone, oh my god, that is the breakthrough I needed. Is that I've said to them, this thing that you are insisting on not throwing away because you don't want it to go to the landfill, is destined for landfill. It will either go there now or it will go there in 20 or 30 years time.

Warfield:    01:17:50   Well, everything in the yoga practice, we often say everything has a beginning, middle and end. Right. Like you acquire something, you use something, it is going, your relationship with that thing is going to end.

Rebecca:     01:18:02   Yeah. Yeah. And if you have spent money on something that is not recyclable and not compostable. It is going into landfill or it is going into our oceans. And what you are doing by not parting with it and by living amongst it is living in landfill.

Warfield:    01:18:20   What a good metaphor, I mean literally you are living in the landfill.

Rebecca:     01:18:23   You are living in the landfill. And so the only way to change that is to get rid of it. If it is not providing you any value or and stop acquiring landfill, and start acquiring things that are going to break down in the environment that are going to last a really long time, that can be reuse, it can be repaired. And those are things that are long-term habits and that take a fair amount of work. But I say to people, you can either let go now and it goes to landfill or it goes to a landfill in thirty years time. And you'd have to live with it for the next thirty years. What do you want to do? And quite a lot of them will actually say, oh my god, I can let it go now. I don't have to have the burden of this for the next thirty years, because no matter what I do, it is still going to go to the same place. [inaudible 01:19:06] I was finishing my sentence with, that really helps.

Warfield:    01:19:14   I'm from the mid-Atlantic of the United States. I was born and raised in Maryland and I came across in a linguistics textbook one time that mid-Atlantic people, their way of communication is interrupting. So my apologies to everyone I talked to in the world who I might interrupt. It is just my way of joining in on the fun.

Rebecca:     01:19:32   I wish I had that excuse. I don't have that excuse. So I'm just merely rude. T

Warfield:    01:19:36   [inaudible 01:19:36] you have experienced being on the mid Atlantic of the United States and so you interrupt a lot.

Rebecca:     01:19:42   Yes. I get so excited and whatever I have to say is immensely more important than the person who's talking [inaudible 01:1947]. And so I have to just, [inaudible 01:19:50]

Warfield:    01:19:52   I understand, but when I was interrupting you and I was going to say, through the yoga practice, I have acquired the mantra of let go. And so I will repeat the mantra, let go, as much as I can throughout the day. It is maybe less now than it used to be because the whole point of mantra is use it as much as you can so then it just becomes a part of your life. And when I was first practicing the mantra, let go, it was really about letting go of thoughts and worries, anxiety, that sort of stuff that these thoughts aren't real, but what I found it over the last few years is the mantra, Let go, makes it, even more now, it is about the whole physical world. Whatever - let go; this dress that I love but now has a stain on it - let go; this thing that is cluttering up my house - let go. Because it is a reminder. None of it really matters. That none of this stuff is really that real. Like, if you think about the mantra, let go in terms of your thoughts. It is just a reminder, let go of the thought, cause the thought isn't real. And in the same way you can let go of your things because your feelings for those, they might feel real but they're not, once the thing's actually gone, so is the feeling for it.

Rebecca:     01:21:09   Yeah. One would hope.

Warfield:    01:21:11   For me it is at least.

Rebecca:     01:21:12   For some people they do hang onto it and that is a big fear. They get anxious partying with it because they fear that they will miss it or that they are losing something and they grieve that loss. But the problem is that a lot of people, especially those who never let go, so anybody with hoarding behaviors or with hoarding disorder, if they never let go, then they've never trained their brain to understand how the grieving process works. And though they might feel an anxiety of ninety-five out of a hundred, over throwing away their old college thesis, research papers, and so their anxiety is at ninety-five out of a hundred for throwing that away. They put blood, sweat and tears into that. And if it is not there, then it means I didn't do anything. And so they've got all this fear. If they then keep that, then their body goes back down from ninety-five, back down to normal. And they never actually know what would possibly happen if they did part with it. If they did part with it, then their anxiety would probably pick one hundred and ten out of a hundred that would feel really, really upset about it. And then a week later it would be down, whenever they thought about it, it would peak, go up, maybe show seventy or eighty. But most of all it is that down low. And after a year's time, the anxiety, even when thinking about it, wouldn't peak above sixteen. And unless they actually practice that, they don't know that. And so they can't actually use that as evidence to convince themselves to part with something. Because it is never happened, their brain doesn't know. And so that it is like a muscle, you know, if you can build up your letting go muscle, it gets stronger and stronger and stronger.

Rebecca:     01:22:52   And if you do have difficulty letting go, starting with the easy things, it is likely lifting lightweights. You can get rid of those things by lifting, those lightweights and building the muscle slowly and then move on to the harder stuff later, once you are a little bit stronger. And it is only by training your brain that way, that it actually becomes easier. And this is why I tell people that they must decluttered with their children because the children need to learn how to build up that letting go muscle. Otherwise they never going to know how to do it. And if it comes naturally that say that is fine, but if it doesn't, then they're going to have cluttered lives.

Warfield:    01:23:27   I think for me, and of course I don't think I have a hoarding disorder or anything like that of course, but for me, using the mantra, let go. That is really what it has done. It is built that muscle, it is started with. I mean, I've never really had a hard time getting rid of physical things, but there are some things that I like really love, but these things mean less to me now. The more yoga I do because I understand that none of this is necessarily the real part of our existence, which is a little out there, a little esoteric. And some people listening might be like, Okay lady, what are you talking about? But the yoga practice has really taught me like, hey, let go of the physical world because underneath the physical world, is what is true.

Rebecca:     01:24:12   And that is the thing with it, with our stuff as well, is that we are not our stuff. And if you strip that away, we're still the same person. And so it is about being comfortable with stripping things away and finding out what's underneath. And realizing that what is underneath is actually the reality. And you don't need all of this stuff piled up on top of you. You can actually still be okay without it. It is not who you are. You are something that is completely in to what you own.

Warfield:    01:24:46   Yeah, it is really amazing stuff and really incredible work you are doing too.

Rebecca:     01:24:51   Well, thanks.

Warfield:    01:24:52   Yeah, no problem.

Rebecca:     01:24:53   I do see a great similarity. Like you were talking about how the yoga practice does sort of encourage you to let go. They're very compatible, ike decluttering of the spaces and, the yoga practices, and the meditations that you do, and things that are all very compatible with learning how to let go and, learning about what gives you value. Everything in our homes, everything in our homes. They give a little to us, and I take a little from us. And so if you look around right now, you can look at all of the belongings that surround you and every single one of those gives you some kind of return on investment, and the investment that you put into that is not only the money that you spend on it, but it is the time and the effort that you put into storing it, the money that you spend it out.

Rebecca:     01:25:46   There are people who have large houses simply because they have lots of stuff. So the money that they're investing in that stuff, the space, the time, tidying it up, moving it, finding homes for it, re-homing it over and over again, moving it whenever you want to pull something out from behind it. That is all an investment that putting into that belonging. Now, some of the belongings will give you a positive return on investment because the effort that you are putting in is lower than what you get from the item. But there are heaps of stuff here. I got with heaps, heaps of stuff that you will have that give you a negative ROI. And those are the things that need to be targeted for a cull because those are the things that are draining you and not give it back to you. And it is those items of clothing that you wear once a year.

Rebecca:     01:26:35   It is the second set of fancy cutlery that you never use. Well the third set, the third dinner set that you never use. The artwork that you've never got around to hanging.

Warfield:    01:26:46   The cabinet full of vintage Pyrex that you don't use because it can't be put in the dishwasher.

Rebecca:     01:26:46   Do you know what I do? I'm really naughty. I'm a vintage collector. I love mid-century stuff and have boundaries. I don't buy everything that I see, but I do allow myself to buy, and I've got a couple of vintage Pyrex paces and I know all the vintage people out there are going to just hate hearing this. But I put it in the dishwasher.

Warfield:    01:27:17   Oh man, they are going to blast you on the Internet.

Rebecca:     01:27:21   I know, right? All right. Because I want to use it and if I have to hand wash it every time, I'm not going to use it. And if I'm not going to use it, it is not going to give me ROI and it has to leave. I love it too much for it to leave. So I use it. And so, I mean, it is not much. I've got a gravy boat and one plate that I've got this particular pattern and I want to collect more of it, but I never say it. It is a very English pattern. So there's not much of it in Australia. And whenever we set the table, everyone knows that I get the Pyrex plate and [inaudible 01:27:56] other plates. I always get my plate, but it goes in the dishwasher and if it fades and it wears off, that is fine. But it hasn't gone into landfill, which is probably where it would've gone because it was languishing on some second-hand guys stall one day. And, it is going to get loved, and used, and enjoyed until the end of its life. And so that is why I put it in the dishwasher so that I can use it and love it.

Warfield:    01:28:22   I just won't put it in the dishwasher. I mean, I'm sorry. I just won't hand wash it. If I use it, it will just sit there forever.

Rebecca:     01:28:32   No, I just put it in the dishwasher because otherwise, it wouldn't get used. And that is another thing, we should be using our things. I shouldn't just have things put aside for good. We should use them.

Warfield:    01:28:45   I have an old friend who used to buy all these candles that were kind of expensive, but then she wouldn't burn them because they were expensive. And there's like a break in the logic here. You know what I mean? Like I don't exactly understand what's happening.

Rebecca:     01:29:02   And I say to people like when people say they've got four dinner sets, they've got one that they got as a wedding present, one that they bought from Kmart, one that was grandma's and one that was, Aunty Sibs and they don't use, they love the older sets. They love grandma's set, but they never use it because they don't let it put it in the dishwasher. And I say to them, throw away, or donate the Kmart set and use grandma's set and put it in the dishwasher. And it might be worth $100 an hour. That set in most vintage stock isn't worth that much. Maybe with a a hundred dollars now, and you might ruin it over the course of 20 years of putting it in the dishwasher. That is fine. You have had 20 years of loving that and you've got your money's worth out of it. It doesn't matter if it is worth nothing at the end, you've actually used it. That is like expecting a tank of petrol to still be full after you've been driving around for a week. It is not a waste to use all of the petrol in your tank. It is not a waste to use your special things either and have them, even if they get to the point where they're not usable at the end of their life, that is fine. You've used them and love them and your ROI on them.

Warfield:    01:30:14   So, interesting. I was thinking when you were talking, just to go back a little bit about the return on investment. In the yoga practice, we often talk about a state called saatva and it is balance and really one way of thinking about it is, a balanced exchange of energy. You know that there's not more going out versus than what's coming in that you hit this place of stasis. Where there's an equal amount in all directions and I'm just looking around my own room right now. My office space is a little crazy because I'm like been frantically working. It is not saatvic in here and with the yoga practice reminds us as you can actually get more done. You know when things are saatvic, when things are balanced and the energy is...

Rebecca:     01:30:58   That is when you are strongest.

Warfield:    01:31:01   Yes, absolutely. I love that. That is awesome. Yeah, I feel like we have like a whole like yoga decluttering philosophy developing here.

Rebecca:     01:31:13   It is all one thing. We've just sort of blended all in together. But yeah, I love that philosophy and that could be something that would be really useful for people when they're trying to get their life in balance and, their belongings in balance and things like that, is the thinking of that, about that energy. The amount going in and the amount coming out. And how you are stronger and at peace when, when it is all done. And it is just that mindset. It is just the hardest part is getting over our fears and our guilt. Once we get over our fears and our guilt where okay, for sure. That is what's holding people back to declutter. It is fear and guilt is what mostly what holds people back.

Warfield:    01:31:57   I always had this moment because everyone who's ever given me a card, like a birthday card or something's going to hate me right now, but I'll just, in full disclosure, I throw them away. And sometimes I do feel a little bit of guilt because I'm like, oh, that is really sweet of them, but I just can't hang on to that sort of stuff. It is like I don't know what to do with it. If I kept every card everyone ever gave me, I'd have an entire closet full of them. And for me, I just don't need those things to be reminded that people love me. I already know because they're in my life.

Rebecca:     01:32:31   Well, yeah, and you've, you've experienced the gesture already. You don't need to have the echo as well. I do keep some cards, but it is a boundary. It is a boundary. Like when the box is full, then I have to cull.

Warfield:    01:32:45   For sure. So Rebecca, this is awesome. Is there anything else that you want to share with listeners of Dharma Drops Podcast?

Rebecca:     01:32:55   Oh, I don't know. I feel like we've been talking for hours. I think that I've done so much talking that everyone will be sick of listening to me.

Warfield:    01:33:02   It is getting late in Australia too.

Rebecca:     01:33:04   Yeah, it is almost bedtime, but it is not too bad.

Warfield:    01:33:07   So can you tell listeners, if they want to learn more about you or your business or your podcast, how can they find you?

Rebecca:     01:33:15   Sure. So my business is called Clear Space, and the website is www.clearspace.net.au. Got some in Australia and our podcast is called Be Uncluttered. And that is atwww.beuncluttered.com.edu and so if you are interested in that, and also if you searched on Facebook for either of those things, Clear Space or Be Uncluttered, you would be able to find me. And Be Uncluttered, which is podcast, I do with my colleague Tara. She's a life coach, who's also based in Australia. She lives in Canberra now, national capital. Cool.

Warfield:    01:33:54   Yeah, I caught you guys on iTunes and I listened to an episode about women against waste, which was really interesting that I enjoyed a lot.

Rebecca:     01:34:04   Yeah. That was really cool. We are a bit excited about that whole waste thing. And Tanya is a colleague of ours who's based in Victoria and yes, she's doing some really awesome things.

Warfield:    01:34:17   Yeah, it is really cool. So the one way that, well. not the one way, but a way that I like to wrap up things on Dharma Drops Podcast is about things that have nothing to do with anything we've talked about. Because I do really, I'm a firm believer that we can be really passionate about things, but there's a big world out there and a lot of interests and a lot of fun to be had too. So all the clutter aside, Rebecca, are there things in life that you are really excited about right now? Like other podcasts, TV shows, books, movies, what are you into these days that we need to check out?

Rebecca:     01:34:52   Oh, okay. When I'm not working, I'm halfway through season three of Stranger Things. I love.

Warfield:    01:35:04   I just finished it.

Rebecca:     01:35:04   Oh cool. I'm only halfway through. I'll have to sort of do it, I don't have time to do any binging. So, I'm only halfway through that. So I'm loving Stranger Things and I'm very behind on Fear, the Walking Dead. But I do love that, but I'm just so far behind on it. Of podcasts. I did mention Hidden Br

Warfield:    01:35:23   Which I never heard of before. It sounds like a good one though.

Rebecca:     01:35:27   It is awesome. I love it. It is all about human behavior and the host, I love his voice as well, so that sort of helps a bit. So that sort of what I'm into. And as far as leisure time goes, it is winter here and I'm hibernating. Sorry, I'm being very boring. Normally I'm a rock climber and to go rock climbing. I like to go every week also. But my friend and I have been particularly slack over winter and we've hardly been at all, so I might be losing a bit of my muscles. I'm certainly losing some of my skill. I go back there and I'm like gone down three or four grades, [inaudible 01:36:13] drag myself back there again and then, I'm missing another few weeks. I'm back down low numbers again. But yeah, I love doing that. You know, it keeps you strong. I mean what we do at least as declutter is, is a lot of heavy lifting. So I'm actually strong and so I really do enjoy it. And I get told off by the calming instructors for just using brute force and dragging myself up by my arms instead of using my legs. And I'm like, yeah, but they are my strongest pops, you know, so I really enjoyed this gun and heaving myself up, it is great fun.

Warfield:    01:36:45   That is cool. You know going back to TV for a second, I've been watching, I don't even know if it is available everywhere. I guess it is. The new Swamp Thing. It was filmed here in Wilmington, North Carolina. It is really good. But they canceled it after the first episode. There was, so the state of North Carolina and the production company were supposed to have some sort of financial agreement and I don't know what happened but it didn't pan out in the end. So they canned it, which was a real bum, because it was the first, cause we talked about Wilmington and film, it was the first sort of big production to come back to Wilmington, since this whole tax shenanigans happened. So everyone was really excited about it because film provided a lot of jobs here. But it is gone now and it is canceled. So it is a real bum. But if you have access to it, it is pretty good. It is a little bit scary. I don't like that stuff. Doesn't scare me, scare me, but it'll give me weird dreams. So I try not to watch it before bed.

Rebecca:     01:37:43   It is funny cause I can't, I can't watch horror movies. And I see some of the things that they come out in the movies and I'm like, there is absolutely no way I would ever watch that. And I can tell just within seconds of the movie trailer, but I'll happily watch the Walking Dead and Stranger Things and like my family, like, oh gross do you can't, I can't believe you watched that. And oh god, that is awful for my daughter walked through when Stranger Things was on the other day. And she's funny, in that, she's got a trillion questions about Stranger Things. She wants to know everything about it. [inaudible 01:38:17] And I'm like, and she's standing behind me and she's like, what are they doing? What's that? Ooh, what's that? Oh my god, what's going on here? Why are they doing that? And I'm like, dude, you either go and watch the first two seasons and leave me alone or you just sit and watch this. I said, either way, just leave me alone. So fun, because she's just asking [inaudible 01:38:35] questions and I'm like, you cannot ask questions if you refuse to watch the first two seasons.

Warfield:    01:38:41   But I stopped watching season two halfway through. I can't really remember why I stopped watching it, but I know Aaron, he finished it, but I thought season three was awesome.

Rebecca:     01:38:53   Yeah, I loved both one and two. One was the best. Definitely two wasn't quite as good, but I still really enjoyed it, but I'm enjoying season three. I'm probably less than the first two. I think they're going for me. They're going in order of enjoyment so far. But it is not finished yet, I think I'm up to episode five.

Warfield:    01:39:13   Oh your close, I think there's only seven episodes.

Rebecca:     01:39:15   Yeah, I'm not too far off. It is sort of all coming to a head at the moment, so that is really cool. And The Walking Dead, no one in my family can't understand how I can watch The Walking Dead.

Warfield:    01:39:27   Actually, I watched the first season of The Walking Dead and I stopped watching it. It is fine. Aaron loves it. So I do know a little bit of what's going on. Just kind of by default, when he watches it. But people looovvve The Walking Dead.

Rebecca:     01:39:40   Yeah. Yeah. It is really popular. I just, I adore it. There are a few seasons where I was like, no, come on, improve a beer. But it is, the last season, it was just a killer. It was awesome. I spent the whole time just going, oh my god, I love you. Oh my god, this is awesome. This is awesome.

Warfield:    01:39:56   Yeah. That is awesome. In terms of podcasts, I have been listening to the same ones actually for a while. You know, anyone who's ever listened to an episode of Dharma Drops knows that I love the podcast My Favorite Murder, I listen to it all the time, but there's three years of episodes now, so I'm just, playing three years of catch up. So then they put out...

Rebecca:     01:40:18   So you are doing the backlog still and you are still going through the backlog?

Warfield:    01:40:25   Well, it is not something wrong with my iTunes, it is a setting that I just haven't, I've just been too lazy to fix, but it is playing them out of order, which is kind of annoying, but I just let it do it is thing whatever. If that is the worst thing in my life, then I think things are going A.

Rebecca:     01:40:39   You are doing okay. I'm the same as you. I have like a few favorite podcasts and they just, the only ones that I listened to. I've always been a fan, like my very first podcast I ever listened to was Stuff You Should Know and I just adore it. I've got them a massive crush on Josh. I love his voice. And I love that and I love the way they, I just love the way they podcast. When I do, when I started my own podcast, a lot of the things that I did in the way that I did them, I've done them the same way they did just because that is all I knew. Because that was the podcast I listened to the most. And there's another one that I'm loving. It is a new one called Adult Conversation.

Warfield:    01:41:23   Oh, I think I heard of this one.

Rebecca:     01:41:25   Yeah, I was a guest on it. So I've done two episodes guesting on that one. She's very funny and it is very real and raw. It is for parents, of mostly of small kids. Tired parents with small kids, mothers mostly. But it is very validating because you know, the mothers often get a lot of these feelings that they can't express and that they think they're the only ones feeling it. And that really does clear, you feel very validated because she says the things that you didn't even know you were thinking, but you realize you were thinking them.

Warfield:    01:42:03   I think there's a lot of good podcasts coming out of Australia. Actually, I've listened in, for the life of me right now, I cannot, oh my god. It is by like a news organization Australia. It is like a true crime podcast. I'll never think of it right now because I can never think of any names, when I'm recording.

Rebecca:     01:42:21   Was that the Teacher's Pet one?

Warfield:    01:42:22   Yes. It is, so there's a couple seasons, but there's another one. There's Teacher's Pet and then the latest season I listened to is really good. But I think you just start with Teacher's Pet.

Rebecca:     01:42:32   Yeah. I think that. I don't listen to True Crime. I can't stand True Crime. I prefer the stylized violence and crime. I cannot deal with reality. I want it very much. I actually in the, the Teacher's Pet one, my friend actually lives across the road from their house. They dug up the backyard of...

Warfield:    01:42:54   See, now, now I'm listening to you. I've been listening to you the whole time. Don't get me wrong. They found a body.

Rebecca:     01:43:02   They dug up the back yard, I don't think they found anything, but I didn't listen to that. I remember my friends sort of saying, I went to Sydney, and I was staying with her, at her house. We were staying together in a hotel in the city. But when I got in the car, she saw it. Oh, you wouldn't believe what's happening at my house. They digging up across the road at this house. And so it was happening right then while I was there in Sydney. So she said, have you heard of the this Teacher's Pet podcasts? And because I don't watch the news and I don't listen to True Crime, I just went nah. And she said, oh my god, are you kidding me? How could you not know about this? So then she gave me the whole drive from the airport to the hotel. She gave me the whole rundown.

Warfield:    01:43:38   That is awesome. There's another one, I think it is called Zealot, that is out of Australia that I have not listened to, but I know it is very, very popular. People love it. So yeah, there's that one.

Rebecca:     01:43:51   I never heard of that one.

Warfield:    01:43:52   I heard about it because the woman who hosts the podcast, Zealot. So long story short. When the My Favorite Murder hosts, do live shows, they will have like a person from the audience come up on stage and tell the story of their hometown murder. And they invited this woman up and she was very funny. And the, My Favorite Murder hosts were like, you are funny. Do you have your own podcast? And she was like, I do, it is called Zealot and it blew up. And so then the next day she was number one on iTunes, and so that is how I, she kind of got her big break, but it is very popular. So there's some cool stuff coming out of Australia for sure.

Rebecca:     01:44:26   Yes. I've, they've got, I've got a few on my list, from Australia. There's one that is really awesome, which is done by our ABC, which has asked sort of, government owned media, radio, TV stations. And they, ABC do, and actually I've got a friend who does a lot of the podcasts for ABC and they, got one called Conversations, which is just really good interviews. It is just interviewed like all different people and they might be sort of well known, or they might, you might have just heard of them, but they're not well known in a famous sort of way. They well know for a contribution that they've made or, something else that has happened. Oh my gosh, while we're talking. Okay. I've got to tell you this. While we're talking, I just went onto the Conversations. There is, it is relevant. Don't worry. I just, I'm on my phone, I went into the app and I've looked up Conversation so that I could make sure that I got what I was telling you. And there is an episode that was released today. That is by I an interview with a psychologist who helps people who hoard.

Warfield:    01:45:43   Oh, stop. That is interesting.

Rebecca:     01:45:46   See, I told you there was a point to me interrupting you and talking about that. There was a point. Yeah. It is called Helping Hoarders Let Go. Now, I would never, this is something that I already object to is calling somebody a hoarder. And they shouldn't have done that. They should have said, Helping People Who Hoard to Let Go. Because, a person who has hoarding disorder is not their disorder. They are a person first and foremost, and they have a behavior or they have a mental illness, so I don't like people saying hoarders. I like them, people saying people who hoard for people who have hoarding disorder. So I object to that, but yes, I'm going to be listening to that one.

Warfield:    01:46:23   Yeah, me too. And I think everyone who just listened to this podcast, will listen to it too, it is a good follow up.

Warfield:    01:46:29   Yeah. Awesome. Well it is late in Australia and it is breakfast time in America.

Rebecca:     01:46:38   It is time to wrap it up yet. It sure is. So one more time, Rebecca, can you just remind everybody how to find you again?

Rebecca:     01:46:45   Yep. www.clearspace.net.au and www.beuncluttered.com.au.

Warfield:    01:46:53   Awesome. And as always you can find me at Rebecca Work Field Yoga on Instagram and I have a second handle, at Diamond Drops Podcast and I just bought the second domain. So if you want to go right to Dharma Drops Podcast, you can go to www.dharmaDropspodcast.com. And as always, remember everything I say is a musing, not a truth. I can't promise you anything I said is true, but I'm pretty sure the other Rebecca is talking pretty true over here. So until we meet again next time guy.

Rebecca:     01:47:24   I try.

Warfield:    01:47:24   Yeah, I tried to, but you know, you never know. Until we meet again. Next time guys. Bye.

Outro:   01:47:31   Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Dharma Drops Podcast. If you'd like to learn a little bit more about my offerings, including my upcoming course, Feeding the Wild Life, head over to www.rebeccawarfield.com or you can get real fancy with it and go to www.dharmaDropspodcast.com and it takes you to the same place because technology is amazing. So in any case, you can go to www.rebeccawarfield.com or www.dharmaDropspodcast.com to learn more about all the offerings and to listen to all the podcast episodes and so on.

To follow me on social media, head over to Instagram @RebeccaWarfieldYoga and @DharmaDropsPodcast. And you can always follow me on Facebook at Rebecca Warfield Yoga + Dharma Drops and that little “and” is a plus sign. So it is Rebecca Warfield Yoga + Dharma Drops. And until we meet again next time my friends clean out your house, clean out your minds, clean out check calendars cause we're getting uncluttered up in here. And then I'll see you on the next podcast. Bye!

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About Rebecca Warfield

Rebecca Warfield lives in a small town on the southern coast of North Carolina. In addition to being an avid traveler and writer, she is a university English instructor and RYT-500 yoga teacher. Rebecca spent her 20s traveling solo around the globe, studying literature, and dancing. In her 30s, a New Year’s resolution brought her to yoga, and she hasn’t looked back. She currently teaches yoga full time and is dedicated to sharing yoga’s teachings with others. Rebecca is the founded Rebecca Warfield Yoga and Dharma Drops to celebrate the diversity of practices and experiences of yogis and non-yogis alike.